We sat down with Ray Yeung for an interview about portraying minority stories in All Shall Be Well and in his career.
Set in Hong Kong, All Shall Be Well follows a wealthy and happy lesbian couple in their 60s, Angie (Patra Au) and Pat (Maggie Li Lin Lin). After living together for 30 years in Pat’s flat, their relationship is largely respected and loved by the friends and family that surround them. But when Pat suddenly passes away, Angie finds herself dealing with a lot more than just grief over losing the person closest to her. When disagreements over Pat’s funeral and the house she shares with Angie take over Angie’s relationship with the late Pat’s family, Angie finds herself alone in her later years and has to embark on a journey of self-discovery and self-assurance.
All Shall Be Well will be screened at the BFI London Film Festival selection, after its Word Premiere at the Berlin Film Festival where it won the Teddy Award, an international award for films with LGBTQ topics. Ahead of its London screenings, we sat down with director Ray Yeung to talk about his film, LGBTQ representation on screen, and what audiences may understand after watching this movie. Read our interview!
Ray Yeung on how All Shall Be Well is inspired by real-life stories and issues
How did you first get the idea for All Shall Be Well?
Ray Yeung: In 2020, in Hong Kong, I went to talk about LGBTQ inheritance rights. During the talk, the speaker quoted a few cases, very similar to the storyline of All Shall Be Well, of long-term same-sex couples that have been living together for many years and are very open in front of their family members. When one of them suddenly passed away, their surviving partner had all these issues with the family members of the deceased. I thought that was an interesting idea, so I interviewed some of those cases.
By talking to the people involved and surviving partners, I realized that I should really write a story about it. First of all, to reflect the lack of LGBTQ rights in Hong Kong but also to examine the meaning of family in the modern context. What is the meaning of it nowadays? Is it just someone who is very close to you in a biological way, in the sense of life-blood relations or is it someone who has been with you all these years, but legally has no rights at all? How does our law, or inheritance law, see this? So that’s why I decided to write a script about it.
How many of the real-life cases and real-life people are present in All Shall Be Well? How much of those interviews that you conducted ended up in it as opposed to what is fictional?
R. Y.: I think the whole journey is frequently similar to real life, but the sad thing is that, in a lot of the cases that I interview, the family members actually change very, very quickly. In one case, they actually moved into the apartment and changed the lock. In another, they would not allow the surviving partner to go to the funeral because they didn’t want her to be seen in public as the life partner of the deceased, so they banned her from going.
The real-life cases are very cruel, but I did not want to depict that in All Shall Be Well. If the family members in the movie act this way, the audience will immediately see them as villains and not empathise with them. It would make people watch it in a detached way as they do not see themselves in the characters. It is almost like watching Star Wars or a fairytale with a very clear hero and a villain. Instead, I wanted the audience to identify with the family members in order to question themselves, and how homophobic they may be. If it was them, what would they do?
On how the cultural context in Hong Kong inspired All Shall Be Well
As you mentioned, it reflects a very real issue, in Hong Kong specifically. Did you want to reflect on that and push for change with the storyline in All Shall Be Well?
Ray Yeung:: Hong Kong is quite interesting in this sense. In the last six or seven years, there have been quite a lot of changes in terms of society’s acceptance of the LGBTQ community. In the last decade or two, a lot of countries in the West have recognised same-sex marriage. I think that helped because in Hong Kong, the public is much more open about it now. However, the Hong Kong government is less open [on this matter]. Recently, there have been individuals from Hong Kong who were married overseas, like in Australia, Canada or the UK, over the last couple of years. And then they came back and wanted to have this right [in their country too, but] the Hong Kong government would not recognize it.
Someone took the Hong Kong government to court and won the case on this. The verdict came out and said that if a same-sex couple married overseas, they would have that recognised, at least for inheritance rights. For example, if one of them passes away, the other one should be able to get the inheritance like for heterosexual couples. However, the Hong Kong government decided to take the decision to the final court of appeal. We are in a limbo at the moment because that verdict came out last September and then the Hong Kong government decided to appeal, there will be a hearing in November this year. I hope that All Shall Be Well will help the public understand what is going on in Hong Kong and that the LGBTQ community doesn’t want more rights than heterosexuals, they just want the same rights. It is not just about properties, this is about human relationships and how the lack of it will affect people’s lives and change them.
The Hong Kong setting is very important to All Shall Be Well and keeps coming back both visually and thematically, how did you work that in and why is Hong Kong such a central part of the story?
R. Y.: The Hong Kong location highlighted two issues. One is the lack of living space. In Hong Kong, everybody is stuck in a very small apartment and usually very expensive. A regular person with a regular income is not going to be able to afford a mortgage, let alone buy an apartment. That makes Angie’s apartment extremely attractive to the family members and, therefore, more reason for them to get it for themselves.
Hong Kong on the surface may seem very sophisticated and Western, but really actually it still contains a lot of traditional Chinese beliefs. If you watch All Shall Be Well, you can see how the traditional Chinese customs themselves are already quite homophobic. It is completely catered for a patriarchal society, the man is always playing the most important role in all these rituals and ceremonies. And I think the movie highlights that. It is a society that would not address the LGBT community because it’s so traditional. I always find myself going to these events feeling very odd. Even though I’m very out and very comfortable with my own sexuality, I always feel very weird going to all these festivals, ceremonies, and rituals, almost like I have to go back into the closet again.
Ray Yeung on the importance of portraying LGTBQ stories on screen
This is not the first time you portray an LGBTQ couple on screen, plus this is also the story of an older couple in All Shall Be Well. Both of these are not mainstream narratives; how important do you think it is to showcase these stories on the screen?
Ray Yeung: I think movies are supposed to reflect society, yet our movies are always just focused on people who are from their teenage years to 35. The majority of movies are about people in that age group but I don’t think that we change that much after we hit a certain age. We still have the same desires and needs, I think films should reflect that. Especially in LGBTQ movies, a lot of them are about coming out, like once you come out everything is solved and your life is beautiful.
But that is not the case: even after you come out, the legal system, society, history, tradition, custom, and religion are still hurdles you have to go through. All of these are rarely shown in films, so I think it is very important to show it. When I made All Shall Be Well, I did not necessarily set out to make a movie about older couples because I already addressed this in my last movie, Twilight’s Kiss. With this film, I needed a couple that has been together for a long time in order for the story to make sense, especially because of the real-life cases I mentioned. Therefore, they have to be at a certain age.
All Shall Be Well won the Teddy Award in Berlin. What does it mean to you both in terms of winning this award but also screening the movie in Berlin?
R. Y.: That makes it very special for us. I think it allowed us to highlight the movie and put a spotlight on it so that people would pay attention to it. With an LGBT couple as the subject matter and it is also part of an older generation, a lot of distributors might find it less attractive or worry that there is not a market out there. I think the best thing you can get out of a film festival is the distributors’ confidence in showing the movie to a wide audience.
On what Ray Yeung hopes the audience take away from All Shall Be Well
So far, the reception has been really positive from when it showed in Berlin. What do you hope audiences take away from All Shall Be Well?
Ray Yeung: First of all, I think people have to realise that you have to look after your loved ones in many ways. By making a will, for example. Even if you are protected by the marriage framework, it’s better to have a will. I think in many cases nowadays even heterosexual couples don’t get married. In many cases, if you are not married you still have to go through a lot of legal issues in many countries that don’t have cohabitation rights. I think making a will is very important and I know a lot of people are very worried or scared of making a will, thinking that they have to face death.
But actually, you can see it in a more romantic way, like a love letter to your loved ones, making sure they know you always have their best interests at heart. The other thing I want the audience to know is that people change, even those who today may be supporting you. But you have no idea how they would change if you were not here, so it is better to be prepared and protect the people you love.
In many ways, the film is very culturally specific to Hong Kong. How do you think an international audience may be able to relate to it or what can they understand about Hong Kong that they don’t already know?
R. Y.: When All Shall Be Well premiered in Berlin earlier this year, we had a Q&A and there was a Caucasian guy who put up his hand, and he said he found this movie very relatable. He is heterosexual but he lives in Scandinavia, and he is not married to his girlfriend, so they are going through the same problem that Angie goes through. In a lot of countries, it is very similar not just in terms of money, property, and inheritance, but also in terms of relationships. This idea is that when your partner is around, you have an extended family but when they are not there, suddenly you are a friend or even just an acquaintance, and you are being thrown out. I think everyone can relate to this feeling of being suddenly alienated and to the grief of losing someone that is very dear to you and struggling to navigate a situation where your world drastically changes overnight.
On the main character and the acting in his film
Angie’s story is very meaningful in the way she navigates grief and all the struggles in her life. Did you always know that the narrative was going in that direction?
Ray Yeung: Well, I think the story is very sad in many ways, right? Angie goes through a journey, she is beaten down through the entirety of All Shall Be Well. She didn’t just lose her life partner, but also her home, her identity, and her place in the family. In the end, she lost her dignity too. When someone goes through so much, how do you make her able to resist all this cruelty? I think the one thing that allows people to survive these situations is the memories of a good time that they had with their partner. Angie needed [to make her own way in the world]. Although Pat did not plan everything well for her, that doesn’t mean she didn’t look after her. Angie needed to find that belief and the memories of the good times they shared together in order to carry on and start a new chapter in her life.
The performances are really good in All Shall Be Well. How did you approach the casting process and choose these actors?
R. Y.: I actually worked with the actress who played Angie in my last movie. At the time, it was her first movie ever. Patra Au has been a theatre actress for many years but never did a movie before. I called up the Hong Kong Rep Theatre Company and asked them if they could introduce an actress of a certain age to me. They introduced me to Petra, I auditioned her and thought she was very good, so I cast her in Twilight’s Kiss. Afterwards, I really wanted to work with her again so when I was writing the script for All Shall Be Well, I already knew I wanted to work with her
The actress who played Pat was more difficult, we were already in pre-production when I found her by watching an old TV series she was in. She had been retired for 34 years and after watching her in the show, I thought she was very good, so I approached her to ask if she was interested in starring in the movie. Luckily, she had watched Twilight’s Kiss before and said this role would be a challenge in All Shall Be Well, so she decided to come on board.
Ray Yeung on his career and what inspires him as a filmmaker
Speaking more broadly about your filmmaking, what are your inspirations in terms of style or which directors do you look up to?
Ray Yeung: I think one of the biggest inspirations is [Yasujirō] Ozu, the Japanese director. I was amazed by his style when I first watched his movies. Growing up, I watched a lot of Hollywood films, there is always a lot of action and camera movements in them, and they are very entertaining. When you watch an Ozu movie, it is just as engaging, if not more, because the information is not fed to you. You have to sit there and absorb it, you have to be there with the characters to feel the atmosphere, the silences, and the ellipses. They don’t tell you everything but, instead, give you some of the information in some of the scenes. Even if they do not show you everything, you can bridge the gap with your own imagination. I find this way of filmmaking very inspiring, that is one of the reasons why I made Twilight’s Kiss and All Shall Be Well in this style.
Another director that I really look up to is Ang Lee. I remember watching The Wedding Banquet when I was young. That movie showed me that the world is interested in stories about ethnic minorities and sexual minorities. So I thought, well, if they are interested in that story, maybe they are interested in what I have to say as well. Therefore, I started thinking that maybe I can also be a film director.
You also studied law before making movies. How did you sort of transition into filmmaking?
R. Y.: Well, I studied law mainly because I’m a good Chinese boy and my parents wanted me to do it. So I did it for them, but I was never really interested in it. Filmmaking was something I always wanted to do, and that’s why I ended up changing to filmmaking. Even when I was doing law, I was already watching a lot of movies and going to a love of film classes. Later on, I decided to make movies, so I went to New York and did an MFA at Columbia University. That was the changing point where I met a lot of great professors and fellow students who wanted to become filmmakers and really find my world in that sense.
What can we expect next in your career? Is there any upcoming project that you can talk about?
R. Y.: I have made films in the English language before so I would quite like to go back and make an English-language movie now. I spent a lot of time in London growing up, I went to school there and everything, which is why the screening at the BFI is very meaningful to me. I am hoping that I can make a movie in London. I also have another project based in Hong Kong, but I will try and start it next year. This year I will be doing a lot of touring for this movie; it will have its cinematic release in a lot of countries in both Europe and the US.
This interview was edited for length and clarity.
All Shall Be Well will be screened at the BFI London Film Festival on October 10-11, 2024. The film was released at Film Forum (NY) and in select US theaters on September 20.
Header credits: Director Ray Yeung at the Berlinale premiere of All Shall Be Well in Kino International / A Still from the movie (Berlinale / Mise en Scene filmproduction & 2024 BFI London Film Festival)
